thanx guys but i am a bit of a roto grip fan and i got a epic oddisey in november but i dont lik it thats y i want a new ball. it does not hook. i dont have a lot of money. but i am an experinced bowler so i no wat im doing and i already hav a proshop i go to. but i just want to no wats out there to get. the avelench solid sounds nice and the roto grip mars also looks good maby somthing lik that would be fine thanx again!!